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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:16 am 
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:30 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Adelaide, Australia
HarryP wrote:
Not just yet mate, it's hard to find a good name without it sounding cheesy :P

Thanks for the Feedback btw.


Perhaps looking at real world naming, especially since you're from the UK and it has a strong medieval heritage, you should be able to come up with some great, real sounding names just by looking at the naming of townships and castles etc. and thinking about ways you can change or adapt them to suit your game

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:39 pm 
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I do have a few names down. They are combinations and adaptations of French words.

Yeh good idea Cherry mate, things like Shire, Bridge, Ford suffixes.

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Location: Preston, England/Larne, NI
Cards on the table Harry, I am alike Cyphris, a mechanical beast. :P By which I mean, although I of course appreciate and am interested in methods of immersion, interactive narrative and atmosphere in videogames and the mediums unique ability to put audiences right in the midst of a story as one of the characters, I am primarily concerned with game mechanics and gameplay as the anchor of an idea, and you are kneedeep in story and universe already, while the game mechanics themselves haven't been as thoughfully considered just yet. I really want to see more gameplay stuff!

Immersion/Universe
Traditional fantasy has to try pretty hard to hold my attention these days, but I like your story and there are whole markets that aren't me still eating up the setting. And while I have loads of my own opinions about techniques to immerse the player in the game world, Cyphris clearly has it covered :D Some quick basic advice is to consider the rules of your world and to ensure the player never feels inhibited or unfairly constrained; the trick to immersion is beleivability. Players will suspend their disbelief willingly and accept the fantastical, as long as you don't restrain them in a way they feel is unfair or unrealistic, aka the extreme example of invisible walls.

Real Time Dodging
In terms of the mechanics you did bring up thus far, realtime projectile dodging (While it would be awesome) is a tricky concept! You have to keep it mind the ranged attacks in WoW seek you because of the latency between players means you can't accurately target anything, they have to bend their trajectory and be definite stat based hits, because melee attacks are definite stat based hits. Its a game balance issue; if you include real time dodging, your game must be in real time, which requires servers of steel. However, the change is coming, and it isn't as impossible as I make it sound.. check out an upcoming game called Blade and Soul, an MMO with full on real time combat and gorgeous visuals.

Tutorials
Veteran gamers would probably appreciate more subliminal tutorials, "learning by doing" in other words, but there are alot of people who really do need their hand held during games. Gamers develop certain intsincts over the years, and confidently tackle problems with that knowledge, many a demographic, particuarly those interested in deep atmospheric "sit on the hill" immersion, can be quite timid and want all the help they can get. Full on pop up tutorials sometimes aren't enough for these gamers, they need real guidance to survive and propser. As you say, include pop ups for those that want them; just do a Brutal Legend and ask the player straight up which they would prefer, an organic learn by doing experience, or a pop-up laden introduction to the game. Keep in mind though, it can be hard to guide even skilled gamers sometimes, you'd be surprised what cues they note and which they overlook... my friend Pete is discovering this just this week, having people play test a level which to him, makes perfect sense, but to others takes a bit of working out.

So yeah! More gameplay info my man! :D A last suggestion is interface related. One reason WoW and GW lack immersion is the myriad of text all over the screen, the complex HUD, the chat bar, the bubbles and icons and radar. Finding clever immersive in-universe alternative to these will be a real challenge, but look to Dead Space with it's holograms or Fable 2 with its canine companion. Players comfortably detach when reminded by every element on screen they are playing a videogame, find some more visceral, visual alternatives.

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Wow Dexter that's awesome advice thanks! Sorry for the late reply, I though I had read this.

It turns out yesterday I was reading some tutorials on writing at The Fantasy Art Research Project, and came up with an idea in my head while in bed. :P

Before this I decided to do a total review of the game idea, including the story, because I need a more original idea for more original characters! And I have decided to create as little direct allusion as possible to the real world. (No copying culture and architecture from real life into a player race, for example.)

Back to the idea: The game will contain several "Gods" (actually these are master character traits, but represented in the story and game world as supernatural beings. ) Now, these Gods are all competing for followers in the mortal world, and will reward their subjects. Let me explain. Each character will have a "Favour meter" measuring their favour with each God, the meter will measure: Negative, Neutral and Positive. If any of you are familiar with MMOs you will know of the Classes which are involved. (or not, such as Runescape). In both of these ideas there is no way to "reverse" your class choice, and little variation is possible between players.
Having high favour with a certain God with bless the player with skills and bonuses which relate to the God's trait. (And the opposite if in negative favour)

Might be confusing...?

Each God has a Trait. Similar to the Greek/Roman Gods, such as Apollo, the God of Philosophy. The Traits are related to the activities in the game, but not quite as straightforward. The God of strength may not necessarily be the God of fighting in general, favour with this God might improve Smithing, Mining (or possibly speech skills?).

Doing positive activities for a God (the term "positive" is relative to the God), will improve favour with that God.

But it isn't as easy as being a good little player :D Each God will have an opposing God (or 2?)! Improving favour with one will decrease with another. This will keep a loose basis of classes while allowing much customisation!

What do you think?#

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:12 pm 
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I think mixing allignment to a diety or religion with in-game character progression is actually a really cool way to do it. This way players could perform rituals, holy tasks, pilgrammages, special prayers and sacrifices in order to earn more favour with one of the gods and therefore more abilities in that area, rather than the generic missions and mob farming usually associated with MMO grind. It's a more unique way to balance your character, and as you say, it provides the chance for players to mix it up a little and dip into multiple "classes" or specialise in their "worship". Would also explain why doing something earns you "experience", because doing what that god likes will obviously earn you favour in that field. And items with statistical modifiers would be so because they are "blessed" by a certain god.

Yep, you're onto something there ;D

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Thanks bud :) I like the idea of actual worship within the game. I also thought, certain activities related to a area governed by a God will improve favour. For example, destroying animal traps in a forest will gain you favour with the God of nature and survival* (survival not being it's real name, it seems very vague, but it is written in its literal sense too).

I have been think also, on the way players perform quests.

How about the player is given a task, not simply kill 5 banshees, but the player is given a slightly vague objective; the player is then forced to plan the quest slightly:

Lets say the objective is "Clear the Temple, within the jungle, of Ghosts"

The player must first gather resources associated with ghosts and the jungle. (Silver weapons, poison antodote etc.) As it says (or not) in the objective, there isn't a given number of Ghosts to eliminate/exorcize. A random (yet realistic) number of enemies are set within a range of locations within a location (The Temple in this case). Also, the player might have the option of an ulterior objective; this may relate to the God's favour once again.

Hope that makes sense. :) I hope to take away the simple and repetitive kill and return quests, exploring new ways of MMO quests. An example of more in depth questing in an MMO is Runescape.

Any feedback?

Thanks :) x

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:53 am 
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:30 pm
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
I like the idea of vague quest objectives, however you just have to be careful that if you were to use an algorithm to randomly generate the number of, in this case, ghosts in the area, that is takes into account number of party/group members, gear and level of party members.

The one thing i dislike about MMO's is that once you get to a high level, you have no reason to go back into the lower level areas to complete quests, because quite simply, you rape everything in that area and you don't agro.

So a way to avoid that would be to have it so that the quest/objective takes into account the party size, gear and levels and then generates the amount and level of the monsters in the mob accordingly.

Another thing you could include [not sure if you have already thought of it] is to have the PvP system, Religion V Religion. So you can band together in say 6/12/24 player instances but rather than have it PvE, the instance is actually against an opposing religion. That way, the game world could be slightly dynamic in that you could have shifting religious boundaries that changed depending on which religion wins the instance/battle, they then control that area/town.

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:49 pm 
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Wow great feedback, Alex, thanks!

I like those ideas very much :) I'll take 'em on board and see what I can do!

Thanks again

H

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:09 pm 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
I should also add that in regard to the PvP system, the instances could also play as an arena. So if you win, you get honour or favour points with your god but if you lose, well....you lose honour/favour points.

Also, the instances could be like an arena because you need to have an opposing force that accepts your religions challenge. Then you could also put in systems like level restrictions and class restrictions to get some cool "custom" instances going.

So for example, the challengine religion could set the level/rank parameter to 15-20, only tank classes [no heals] and then an opposing religion can get a party together that fits within those constraints. So that way, it can almost play as a custom instance where players have some control over the settings.

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 Post subject: Re: War Torn's Saga
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:47 pm 
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Made a little mind map, not finished :P


Attachments:
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